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Flawed thinking

  • November 11, 2015 5:00 AM PST

    Dear members

    I’ve now had the opportunity to read all the posts in the General Discussions, Spiritual and Scientific, and there is a general theme running through the postings that frankly, I find very difficult to assimilate and accept. I refer to such topics as for example ‘The sweetness of divine love’ and ‘The Wisdom of Love’ as typical examples of what I consider to be flawed thinking on the part of the authors.

    For example ‘To love is to heal. To heal is to strengthen. To strengthen is to balance.’

    In Nigeria, a country steeped in religious brainwashing and indoctrination, there is a very powerful religious organisation called ‘Morning Water’ which attracts thousands of believers. You can watch their services on YouTube.

    Ordinary people, who were once poor and without a future receive the ‘morning water’ and their lives are transformed in an instant and are suddenly possessed of fine house, cars, clothes, servants and an envious life style that was only made possible because they found God through the ‘morning water’

    Listening to their stories, it might appear that they have now been blessed, but listen closer and you soon notice the flaws. It is without doubt one of the biggest and most successful cons going, the ultimate pyramid scheme where the organisers grow fat and rich at the expense and gullibility of the thousands.

    In the late 70s, I was a patient for a small period of time in a UK mental hospital, not very nice places in those days.

    Unlike the other patients I was not on any medication, so I got the opportunity to observe the behaviour of some of them at close quarters. The medication undoubtedly robbed them of their ability to think too closely about their predicaments, and it became apparent that they all grew up in dysfunctional families who had lost their way during early childhood, the impact of which caused them big problems as they grew up until finally they run into insuperable problems. Eventually, the police and social services get involved and they land up in the mental hospital.

    My own particular brand of mentall illness created the ideal circumstances for an obsessive love affair that lasted 7 years in the 90s and, as Eshara says in the wisdom of love, I attached myself to love 100%. Alas, my lover was a married woman who was torn between me and an otherwise normal marriage, and it ruined my life because she could not leave him, plus I had no house to live in, so there was nowhere for her to go.

    In those 7 years, I experienced the ecstasy and agony of forbidden love, so painful was it that I wonder now how I managed to survive without going completely insane. Why couldn’t I just love her and be happy with that? There were unresolved demons invading my mind and creating havoc with my ability to function properly.

    The relationship was akin to addiction to heroin, the drug in my case was the love we had for each other.

    Nowadays, the love affair is a dim and distant memory, the love created a bond that destroyed me and that is because it was sexual lust gone berserk, for love between consenting adults is little more than sexual lust with benefits, for at heart we need to reproduce, and sex is the only characteristic of humans that enables us to be labelled as a couple, unless of course you are a priest or a nun.

    That aside, we can care for dogs and cats just as easily as we can care for humans. There are many different kinds of relationships that masquerade as love, the interaction with our parents, our siblings, our relatives, our friends, our colleagues at work, our classmates, our sports club comrades, and our children.

    The ‘love’ that we tend to concentrate on though, is the one involving the person we wish to have sex with. The primary problem that me and my friends obsessed over when we were adolescents was finding partners we could have sex with and thereby form a 'relationship' and ‘fall in love’

    When we are in love the world is perfect and we have no need for all this spiritual clap trap. But then things go wrong, we find ourselves at odds with our partners and this can also result in degraded relationships with everyone else.

    But underpinning all this are our mummies and daddies who tend to stay with us throughout our lives. And as we get older so too do they age until they are mere shadows of their former selves and we then ask ourselves ‘what the hell were we so afraid of?’ They are withering away, they got no teeth, they are old and frail and you don’t know whether to love or hate them.

    As a famous poet once said ‘our parents, it wasn’t their fault, but they fuck us up.

    Confronting the way they fucked us up is something that many people are eventually forced to do. It’s recognising the absence of proper love in our childhood that needs to be confronted in adulthood, and merely directing it towards a perceived spiritual entity does not solve any problems, it simply delays the inevitable if the number of old people worldwide suffering dementia and Alzheimer disease is anything to go by.

    A final word about Elshara’s use of the phrase ‘pussy whipped’

    I would say that Elshara suffered a traumatic birth, for it is out of pussy that we emerged. A woman’s vagina is actually the most beautiful and desirable part of her body, but many people, men in particular, are scared shitless of what this part of the female body actually means. It is not necessarily pleasure but deep subconscious reminders of what for many was the most traumatic episode in their lives – their birth, and Arthur Janov in his book ‘Life Before Birth’ suggests that dementia has its roots in oxygen deprivation at birth.

    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 5:26 AM PST
    I'm sorry that you've never experienced the bliss and happiness of divine love.
  • November 11, 2015 6:01 AM PST

    Well dear Edward, if you are saying you have experienced it, then I would say you are suffering from delusion.

    There are 7 billion people on this planet, and by and large we all experience the same things. A TV advertisement from Unicef tells us that 7 million people have been displaced from Syria, and this includes vast numbers of children whose parents have been wiped out, who are confused and traumatised, and are now running into a major new threat - winter, so the ad asks us to text the word BLANKET to 70007 to give £3 to buy blankets, which I did.

    Where is the divine love in that? Such a profound experience cannot be the domain of single individuals, but must apply to the entire human race, for my conclusions are not based on my own personal experiences so much as a broad acknowledgement of the human condition that creates global crises such as what's happening in the Middle East, why the African continent is exploited so drastically etc.

    If we consider the entire animal kingdom, they all get along perfectly well without reference to a God or Divine Love, these are all human inventions to make us believe there is some point to life.

    I consider myself to have been lucky to have grown up in an anti-religious household because it has enabled me to sweep aside the religious crap that is rammed down our throats when we are children. Remove religion from children and this gives them the opportunity to see life for what it is, and not what some evangelist screaming the word of God wants you to believe.

    But all this aside, what do you actually mean by 'divine love' and how is it different to any other kind of love?

     

  • November 11, 2015 6:06 AM PST

    Divine love is little more than wishful thinking, 'oh if God doesn't love me, then the whole purpose of my life is wasted and pointless'

    Well, I have news for you, that God doesn't exist, figment of the imagination like a ghost

    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 8:35 AM PST
    I find this discussion is full of flaws. And your way of thinking is also flawed. I appreciate your advice that I am delusional. But really since you are so very flawed how can I believe you? I prefer to remain in divine bliss then Harbor such a sour attitude as yourself. Before you evaluate others I suggest you make a thorough evaluation of yourself.
    By the way there are many anomaly which suggests the current viewpoint of history is deceptive. Just because information is written in many textbooks and taught in schools does not make it correct. Many very old structures have been discovered throughout the planet which indicate previous societies possessed a highly advanced technical capabilities that with today's Engineering could not be reproduced.
    Theories regarding evolution are full of anomaly and it's been discovered in trying to the find the missing link that fakes have been perpetrated by unscrupulous so called scientists. Piltdown man and Lucy are two examples of phony evidence. Perhaps the missing link is scientists who perpetrate the evolution theory require a good kick in there behind.
    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 8:49 AM PST
    To declare there is no God is rather pompous statements. It implies that one knows everything , and declares in there all encompassing knowledge that God is dead or does not exist.This is a contradiction in terms. It is a way of declaring oneself as God the all knowing being. Rather paradoxical don't you think. More honest would be agnosticism at least it would be a humble admission of lack of knowledge.
    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 9:00 AM PST
    There is much suppressed evidence indicates humans lived longer and possessed taller stature in the past. Humans are now shorter lived and pygmies compared to their former selves. Yes we are devolving .We were more advanced in the past now we are in the dark ages.
  • November 11, 2015 2:20 PM PST

    You suggest I have not experienced the bliss of divine love. Well, if your God is so damned clever and omnipotent, how come He has failed so miserably to enable this?

    Obviously I am far cleverer than your God is.

    Parents have the power to make their children feel happy or sad, but apparently, your God does not have the power to determine how I might feel.

    How can this posting be flawed, it is simply an account of various incidents in my life, like a diary. The other posting ‘Turning To God’ well you wont find any textbook references to what I had to say.

    Like all religious fanatics, you hang on to your belief in God like it’s your leg I am attempting to cut off. I am perfectly entitled to reject the Biblical God, but you take it as a personal insult, as if you’ve been having this rammed down your throat every day of your life, yet it is probably the first time you’ve ever had your belief challenged, and it really upsets you.

    I had a similar argument with a Ghanaian youth. For the first time in 23 years he'd had his belief system challenged and he couldn't deal with it, as if he too had had the argument rammed down his throat every day of his life.

    I told him 'instead of going to church every Sunday, use your energies to stop the electricity being turned off every day, get all homes fitted with lavatories and running water, do something to improve the horrendous roads, have something for kids to do when they leave school like regular employment.

    But he'd rather be woken up every morning at 5 am by a pastor who thinks it's perfectly ok to scream the word of God to entire communities using microphone, loudspeakers and amplifiers that were invented and designed by people who rejected God, because God has no place in technological innovation. Throw away your mobile phone and TV and motor car Edward, your GOd has nothing at all to do with these things.

    Furthermore, your ‘arguments’ have nothing to do with what I am talking about.

    The God that you believe in does not exist. It’s not surprising, You were told when you were a child to go to church and believe in God or be damned, so you obviously meekly went along and never had the intellectual capacity for challenging the belief system, and you have not actually understood anything I’ve written.

    The so-called ‘missing link’ is a very outdated concept that has nothing at all to do with the philosophical and intellectual considerations of the meaning and purpose of life. There were 6 species of homo and the other 5 died out.

    God did not create Man, and neither did He create the heaven and the earth. God knew nothing about computers or physics, which accurately mirrors the ignorance of the people who wrote the Bible.

    The authors were not interested in educating or informing, but to create populations of obedient sheep who would do their bidding – you are a member of a flock are you not?

    In regards to whether or not we are more or less advanced, the ancient Greeks only knew about earth, fire, air and water, but nothing of gravity apparently, Belief in the Biblical God should have died out along with Dodo, so that fact that people like yourself still believe it tells me that emotionally you are still living in the dark ages. I suggest you start listening to classical music, read the works of the Russian philosopher Ouspensky and the primal therapist Arthur Janov, and get a physics degree. You might then start to understand something about the Universe we inhabit.

    I am not saying that God does not exist. What I am saying is the thing that YOU believe in does not exist. There is a big difference, but you dont have the intellectual or philosophical ability to see beyond the nose on your face.

  • November 11, 2015 2:52 PM PST

    I happened to tune in today to this afternoon's Evensong broadcast on Radio 3 and what I heard took me by surprise. If fact, I could not believe what I was hearing.

    From the pulpit in one of the cathedrals, a female Bishop was expounding the great word of God to her flock who repeated everything she said, like 'atone for your sins, atone for all the things you did that you shouldn't have done, and all the things you haven't done that you should have done - everything that by and large condemns the human spirit, as if people are all the time walking around with terrible thoughts in their head and committing terrible deeds.

    One church service I attended one Sunday by a guy who is actually is quite intelligent, but standing aloft above his congregation, he told us that the planets are stationary and dont actually orbit the sun and who is firmly convinced there is no such thing as gravity. The same person has written a book declaring that white causcian man is a creation in the image of God.

    Another pastor referred to the Joseph of the Old Testament as a Christian.  I have watched broadcasts of services held amongst predominantly black communities, thousands of them, eagerly writing down all the bullshit the pastor feeds them. God will come, God will deliver us from evil, the great second coming is always tomorrow, never today.

    I have sat in on Bible reading classes in churches and watched the way the devout soak in the garbage that they are forced to injest on account of their flawed upbringings from birth that keep them brainwashed and indoctrinated, and they happily give the pastor money so he gets rich and they stay poor.

    Believers feel the need to worship God so they all pop along to church, and this is how the pastors get to achieve their ambition which is to persude them all to give generously to the church so that they the pastors can live comfortable, affluent lives.

    But you need to be there to witness it for yourselves.

  • November 11, 2015 3:06 PM PST

    Belief in God is basially a fund raising event, with different tiers of pastor there to deliver the message based on his expertise at persuading the congregations to hand over their hard earned cash, and I have witnessed this many times in church services here in UK which are predominantly Ghanaian. Of course, the Church of England doctrine is a bit more subtle, but once a person believes in God, he or she is hooked and will swallow anything they are given, and this has been my experience ever since I met my first girlfriend at University who was Catholic. During these church services, I entered a world that was alien to me, and no matter how hard I tried to understand the underlying message, it always evaded me, especially after considering the subtle ways the message changed throughout history.

    The church these days doesn't have nearly as much power as it once had, but once upon a time, women could be burnt at the stake for being witches, the Spanish and Portugese Inquisitions were masters at torturing people, Catholicism and child sexual abuse are very much interrelated.

    The bottom line is clear - people do not need to praise or worship God. This is not why we exist. One day, people might wake up and realise this. Getting fresh water and regular electricity are things we take for granted, we don't need to workship anyone to atone for this 'selfish' act of taking it for granted.

    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 4:37 PM PST
    Richard, please realize this site is being hosted by an ISP and they charge Elshara a rather large portion of his disability money.. as you are taking advantage using this platform as a mouthpiece for your ideas it would behoove you to make a small offering of some cash on a regular basis. This is not mandatory but would help out a little.
    There are no advertisers here and kindness of our members is helpful.
    • 14 posts
    November 11, 2015 9:22 PM PST
    As clever as you imagine yourself to be Richard, God will have the final say. When it comes time to leave this world you will bow down. Your corpse will collapse and you will show respect. So much for your cleverness. You will meet God as death the unconquerable. Perhaps there is flawed thinking on your part.
  • November 12, 2015 12:37 AM PST

     
    Join me on Extraterrestrials, a spiritual, scientific community network,' is the invitation. 'We welcome you with open arms in unconditional love'

    This suggested to me a community of highly intelligent, far thinking individuals with insight and knowledge on matters spiritual and scientific, and it is to those individuals that I posted 'is there a reason for our existence?'

    The conventional view of life is it is a once only experience to be terminated at death when God will then determine our fate in some kind of afterlife, and you have very succinctly affirmed this.

    I think this view is false and misleading, and my previous posting went some way towards explaining why.

    But I got minimal response, which surprised me, so I decided to dig deeper in order to establish the calibre of other contributors, and I got you.

    You are a typical example of someone who is deeply immersed in the conventional view of religious belief that tells me you think about nothing and you know even less.

    Time I moved on.

  • November 12, 2015 12:47 AM PST

    Edward, you really are a pompous asshole. All internet websites are hosted by Internet Service Providers.

    Like your views, the invitation to join the website is false and misleading. It should be called 'Standard run of the mill Religious Dogma' and then I could have dispatched the email to the garbage.

    • 14 posts
    November 12, 2015 1:02 AM PST

    [blockquote]Richard Cattermoul said:


    Time I moved on.

    [/blockquote]

    goodbye Richard I shall truely miss you.


    This post was edited by Edward Shapiro at November 12, 2015 1:05 AM PST
  • November 12, 2015 4:24 AM PST

    In that case you should subscribe to http://forums.philosophyforums.com/ that offers discussions and subject matter that really help us get to grips with this miracle we call life and existence.

    Nameste